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Message Boards: 3rd installment of each series

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BonsteelAudio
BonsteelAudio's Photo
Posted on 10/18/2010 at 4:41 PM

Is it just me, or did many of our favorite series hit their stride in the 3rd installment?

I'm talking about graphically, control and replay value-wise, musically even..

Check it out:

Super Mario Bros. 3
Legend of Zelda 3 (Link's Awakening)
Mega Man 3
Mario Party 3
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 3: The Manhattan Project
Sonic 3
Final Fantasy III (VI in US)

Then, these I'm unsure of, because I was a Nintendo kid growing up, and didn't have a chance to try these series. Exception: Sonic.) I'd appreciate any feedback about these installments. Did they make it big at #3 and regress since then?

Metal Gear Solid
Super Metroid (I believe a metroid was released on Game Boy after the original Metroid debuted on Nintendo, which would make Super Metroid #3?)
Resident Evil
F-Zero
Mario Kart
Fallout (3 is amazing. What of the others?)

I'll admit that I'm kind of opinionated about these games, but the third of each series really seemed to "stick" more in my memory than the first two. This is probably because in most cases, the capabilities of each system gradually evolved with each passing installment, but for some reason, after the 3rd, series sometimes seem to lose some of their charm.

In the case of, say, Mario Party, after #3 they started removing some of the best minigames from their collection (Bumper Balls!) and replacing them with less fun ones.

Thoughts? I'd really like to hear what other people have to say about this.

Nacho
Nacho Photo
Posted on 10/18/2010 at 10:04 PM

I'm not sure, I think some of the series you mentioned have still gone on to produce quality games but we grew up in the Nintendo (8-Bit) generation, so maybe as we got older they don't appeal to us anymore?

I know that video games follow the music curve in a way. When a band first produces an album, usually all the songs on the album are from years and years of writing and refining songs. However, when the pressure comes to write a new album in 3 months, they can't reproduce the results because they haven't had time to properly write songs.

I believe video games follow the same path sometimes. If one game is successful and they try to churn out a sequal in a year or so, usually not as much effort goes in, so a lackluster game is made.

One thing I will agree with you 100% on is the fact that not enough effort is being put into games anymore. It feels like as long as the graphics are flashy then they don't care about the substance (storyline, music, etc.) The games from the Super Nintendo era had so much effort put into them and it shows. Maybe the younger generation of gamers care more about flash than substance, so are they to blame? LOL.

I guess every series can't avoid throwing in a clunker every now and then (Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Final Fantasy X-2, etc.) But maybe we've matured as well and video games don't appeal to us as much as when we were kids, so the only games we continue to play are the ones that give us that nostalgic feeling?

Bregalad
Bregalad Photo
Posted on 10/19/2010 at 5:52 AM

Usually the 2nd installment in a series is a weak one, and the 3rd is a really strong one. (BTW about Final Fantasy why is there people that STILL use the old american #s when they has been re-released multiple times with the correct # ?)

There is exceptions though. For example in the Mega Man series and sub-series, Mega Man 2 (NES) is considered very good by everyone, and Mega Man X2, Mega Man Battle Network 2, and Mega Man Zero 2, they all got positive critics.

On the other side, Zelda 2 (Adventure of Link), Final Fantasy 2, Castlevania 2, Super Mario Bros 2 and others have got bad/average reception.

Nacho
Nacho Photo
Posted on 10/20/2010 at 11:22 AM

You make a good point Bregalad. I didn't even realize how many sequals turned out disappointing.

Though Super Mario Bros. 2 is in a different situation because they just used another game and just substituted the main characters with Mario Bros characters! I just learned about that about a couple years ago, how lame is that?!

BonsteelAudio
BonsteelAudio Photo
Posted on 10/20/2010 at 9:16 PM
Nacho wrote:

You make a good point Bregalad. I didn't even realize how many sequals turned out disappointing.
Though Super Mario Bros. 2 is in a different situation because they just used another game and just substituted the main characters with Mario Bros characters! I just learned about that about a couple years ago, how lame is that?!

I think it was called Doki! Doki! Panic.

It's weird to think that none of those characters (birdo, shy guy, snifits) were actually part of the Mario world to begin with! Yet, mixed with the animals and walking fungi of the original Mario, they sort of worked.

Vault92
Vault92 Photo
Posted on 10/23/2010 at 10:17 AM

Majora's Mask was my favorite Zelda, and I loved Final Fantasy 2. It's all subjective.

Metal Gear Solid 3 was personally my favorite out of the series, and so was Resident Evil 3: Nemesis.  Other than those, I can't think of a good game that was the third in the series. Maybe the upcoming Megamen Legends 3 and the more recent Fable 3.

Marvel VS Capcom 3 is looking iffy. MVC2 was great, and after waiting this long for a third it has a lot to live up to.

Nacho
Nacho Photo
Posted on 10/23/2010 at 3:00 PM
Vault92 wrote:

Majora's Mask was my favorite Zelda, and I loved Final Fantasy 2. It's all subjective.

LOL, yeah, I guess it is all subjective. Majora's Mask was probably my least favorite, but to each their own! Laughing

Bregalad
Bregalad Photo
Posted on 10/25/2010 at 12:27 PM

What frustrated me with Final Fantasy 2 is that the first part of the game looked absolutely good, but that past some point it was completely impossible to progress because of terrible battle system / programing errors. I mean in the NES version. They fixed it in the GBA version so I was able to beat the game.

Nacho
Nacho Photo
Posted on 10/25/2010 at 12:44 PM
Bregalad wrote:

What frustrated me with Final Fantasy 2 is that the first part of the game looked absolutely good, but that past some point it was completely impossible to progress because of terrible battle system / programing errors. I mean in the NES version. They fixed it in the GBA version so I was able to beat the game.

Yeah, I remember when I played the NES version I got to a point where it was just impossible. The GBA was alright, I just wish they would revamp the story lines with the earlier ones (I, II & III) and make them more modern and up to date. I sat there playing FFIII on the DS and at the end I was like "Really? That's it?". It was such a fun game that totally could of used more substance, but alas, Square Enix took my money and they don't really care about what I think. Tongue out

Bregalad
Bregalad Photo
Posted on 10/28/2010 at 2:15 AM
Nacho wrote:

Yeah, I remember when I played the NES version I got to a point where it was just impossible.

 Yeah, because you could very easily kill weaker enemies, but stronger enemies becomes instantly MUCH harder, and could kick your ass. So it is kind of impossible to level grind - the only option is to beat strong enemies in small quantities at a time and being lucky.

Another major problem was the strongly limited item inventory, where you could only carry a dozen of healing items before running out of space. When every enemy in a 8-floor dungeon has 1/2 chances of poisoning/blinding you if they hit you, you'd better have to be over-leveled so that you evade all hits. It's not the 5 antidotes and an antidote spell you can use only a couple of times before running out of MP that will save your skin here.

Did I mention that everytime you changed your weapon, you had to miss ALOT before being able to proprely use it ? So in the end, never switching weapons was the best option as opposed to upgrade them and be in trouble for the next 50 battles.

I guess Nasir was a good mathematician and a decent programmer, but not a great game designer. It's only from FF3 when Nasir left Square that the series really begun to be great. I have many issues with the NES version of FF1, and even more with FF2. The menu intercaces are really lamely programmed, even for it's time.

CabbitSD
CabbitSD Photo
Posted on 12/20/2010 at 8:32 AM
Nacho wrote:
You make a good point Bregalad. I didn't even realize how many sequals turned out disappointing.

If I may add my two cents worth...  I've never played much of the Disgaea series, but I probably won't explore it because of the bad taste in my mouth after playing some of the third installment.  I hear from my friends that the first two aren't bad at all; in fact they're quite playable.  I don't care; I now refuse to touch anything that bears the Disgaea logo on it.

Although if the rumors are true, this series produces two really solid games right off the blocks and then flops on the third, breaking the pattern as discussed above, thereby becoming the 'fly in the ointment', if you will.

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